Aaron’s Radio Show

Episode 32

My Three Songs with Jason Wizelman

 

Notes

Episode Notes

EPISODE 32 – My Three Songs with Jason Wizelman:  Welcome, everyone, to Episode 32. This is the 22nd in our series of episodes called My Three Songs where my guest chooses three memorable songs and we listen to the songs and talk about why they are meaningful to my guest. Jason Wizelman is a professional drummer. We listened to and discussed three songs that were particularly meaningful to him because of their rhythm and percussion.

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Three Songs

  1. Rich Girl – Daryl Hall & John Oates (1977)
  2. Reelin’ in the Years – Steely Dan (1973)
  3. Fool in the Rain – Led Zeppelin (1979)

Aaron’s Radio Show has been licensed by ASCAP and BMI to include songs from their repertories in performances on this website.

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Transcript

This transcript was originally generated using artificial intelligence ("AI") software. It has been edited by a human being, but it may still contain some misspellings, lack necessary punctuation, or include other anomalies. We are regularly working to improve our transcripts!


Jake:

Coming to you almost live from Berkeley, California, it's Aaron's Radio Show ... with your host, Aaron Gobler.

Aaron Gobler:

Thanks, Jake. And welcome, everybody to Episode 32. Welcome to My Three Songs, where I play three special songs chosen by my guest, and we talk about why they chose each song. Today, my guest is Jason Wizelman. Jason is a good friend of mine, also from the East Bay. He's a fantastic drummer, and well, just a wonderful force of nature. Jason, thank you so much for being my guest today. I asked you personally to be on the show. What made you agree to be a guest?

Jason Wizelman:

Well, it's a great question. First of all, thank you for inviting me, because that's a pretty big honor. Especially now that I've seen your list of guests, all illustrious. And I said yes. without thinking about how hard it would be to only choose three songs. But I was intrigued because I love talking about music anytime all the time. And I will jump at the chance to do it and have it be recorded. So I can listen back and see how either smart I am or not.

Aaron Gobler:

My goal is always to make my guests seem like their best. I don't think it'd be a challenge for me. I think you'll be a fantastic guest on the show. And I'm eager to edit the show and get it out to the public.

Jason Wizelman:

I hope your instincts are correct.

Aaron Gobler:

Have faith in me.

Jason Wizelman:

Have faith in ME.

Aaron Gobler:

Okay, that's good. It's a good start. So before we officially begin, can you tell me how music fits into your life do you do you seek it out? Is it usually in the foreground or the background of each day.

Jason Wizelman:

So music is in the center of my life every day all the time. As you mentioned, at the intro, I play drums, I've played drums since I was a youngster. I started out playing guitar because my brother Daryl played the drums and my parents didn't want to have two drum sets in the house. I played guitar for a year, I played piano for a year. Finally, just wore them down. So I'm great at that ... I'm great at wearing people down to get what I want. And then there were two drum sets in my house. And once I had a drum set, I couldn't be cajoled off of the thing. Unless it was for food or school for a girlfriend, essentially. So you know, and when I wasn't playing music, I've been listening to music. And still to this moment. I mean, every day it starts with a I sit, you know, I start the work day. My okay, what's going to be on top for day? What am I in the mood for? Is it Prince? Is it Stevie Wonder? Is it Billy Eilish? Is it Tom Petty? Is it Led Zeppelin? Is it Steely Dan? I mean, and sometimes I'll make playlists for the week. I know, it's gonna be a real tough week. I got that. And luckily, I'm in two pretty sweet bands, a lot of horns. And both of them. And you know, we're always playing a gig somewhere. So there is a usually a 30- to 40-song songlist for the next set that I'm also trying to get into my soul. So I listen to that a lot. So I'm kind of exposed to there. To answer your question. Yes. I'm always listening to music.

Aaron Gobler:

It sounds like Yeah, I think your word center ... you know, this, it's centered, it centers you. Or it is the central ... it is the central part of your life. It's not just like it's this kind of scenery or something. It's it's actually ... you're in the middle of it. It's actually ... it's in the middle of you. Yeah.

Jason Wizelman:

Fantastic. I mean, it's like a soundtrack for me. Like I'm even now it's weird that music's not on and the only reason it's not is so we don't like interfere with the podcast. Usually, even if you call me you're gonna hear something in the background. You may not know what it is. But like chances are if you're doing it in the last few days, it's going to be filk Sonic. I can't stop listening to that record. Okay, but anyway ...

Aaron Gobler:

I have seen some Facebook videos of you playing drums and you were playing just like a funky lick I guess if you call it that. It underscored for me how I appreciate and know how necessary the drum and the rhythm is for a song. I have never studied playing drums. I've been learning how to play ukulele for a little while, but just hearing the funky drums just by itself, I'm like, That's funk. That's right there ... funk and I and so you get you get to appreciate that without all the other music. Just like if you hear like Ringo Starr just play licks from Beatles songs ...

Jason Wizelman:

He's amazing.

Aaron Gobler:

You just know the song. Right? But you wouldn't think about that, otherwise. I wouldn't think about that otherwise. So it really struck me about like, how, first of all, how amazing you played. And then also, I just recognized that as funk without even having labeled it as funky. I'm like, wow, that's pretty intense ...

Jason Wizelman:

Well, your kind to say, and it's very true, the drums drive the whole theme of whatever that tune is. And it's organic, of course. And it depends on who the player is. Some people are funkier than others, just just how it is. You don't put your finger on it, because you take it for granted. Because it's the internal part of the human soul. Drums are in all of us, everybody can hit something. Everybody has an internal beat. It's not musical, it's just a part of their human soul. So when a drummer, by the way, you said you're learning play ukulele, awesome. The difference between drums and the ukulele is to extra limbs. So imagine that you're using all four limbs, plus your ears, plus your soul to drive a band or to help someone get up and move and dance. Or support even just, you know, a melody. It's really an amazing integral part of any song that if done, well, hopefully, you're not recognizing it. It's just a part of the fabric of that tune. And that's why Ringo is in one of the most amazing drummers of all time, because that guy only played for the song. He never thought, "oh, man, I'm gonna wow them here. Watch what I do here". He's always said, "Oh, I got the three greatest songwriters in front of my face. How can I support them?" And always knew where to put a fill ... his space ... the things he doesn't play is what makes him a genius that only people now are going to really appreciate. The licks he didn't play made him who he is. Well, that's a pretty good job.

Aaron Gobler:

So rather than being a show off, he just let the others sign through and those spots or felt like it was unnecessary for him to put something in there for his own ego.

Jason Wizelman:

Almost always. That guy does not play for his ego.

Aaron Gobler:

Yeah, I just always imagined him as being kind of the throw-away, out of the four of them. And then when I saw some video on the web about where he was just playing different riffs from from the different Beatles songs, and I'm like ... "That. That is the song." Yeah, I mean, you know, and it has lyrics and it has all the rest of it. Yeah.

Jason Wizelman:

Yeah, there are so many iconic grooves that that guy created ... the song is built around that you don't you take it for granted. And like you said, if you're not a drummer, right, I mean, you know, again, I am a drummer. I think of songs in different ways. You'll see from my three songs, they're all drum-centered, believe it or not. And I could have chosen 100 other songs depending upon a flick of some kind of phrase if you'd said, Oh, well, but the funky one or this era, or this person, or you know, I'm saying like there's this was I had to meditate on this to choose these three tunes, but the thread are amazing, amazing, crazy, crazy drummers.

Aaron Gobler:

It is so difficult when you when you're really engrossed or or just passionate about music, to find three songs that you'll highlight ...

Jason Wizelman:

I actually didn't want to go through it. I felt after the second day of not being able to get my three. Like it was like killing it was like Sophie's Choice... you know, you're you just do I know, one of the tunes. I don't know where we're going to reveal the tunes. I don't want to do it yet. But one of the tunes is a guaranteed lock like that is my soul song. Okay. And then there's other few like, I have a bunch of soul siren songs. Yeah. Which, you know, it's tough to just choose the other two, but okay, I'm happy with my three choices. Actually. I've shared them with a few people and they all patted me on the back, so I got that going for me.

Aaron Gobler:

Okay, good. Well, why don't we just jump right in. The three songs that you chose were "Rich Girl", by Daryl Hall and John Oates, from 1977; "Reelin' in the Years", by Steely Dan, from 1973; and "Fool in the Rain", by Led Zeppelin, from 1979 ... and you've already given away that these are drum-centric, they highlight drumming ...

Jason Wizelman:

They do feature the drums, in some cases. And like you said this before, it's more prominent. In some cases, it's not at all. But without these certain elements, these songs just do not have the same shape, color and feel. And a lot of what draws me to a song, that would make it my favorite is the texture. These songs have a certain texture musically, both in instrumentation, the vocals, and the production. There's something like, it's almost like you can taste it, or you can feel it. It's got a there's like a chewiness to it. I don't even know how to explain it in another term, but these are songs that my soul can really like, it stretches me. It does something. So anyway, that's, that's why I chose this three and yeah, all in the 70s, which, you know, I'm a product of the 70s, born in 68. And I don't think that all the best music was made in the 70s. But I think a lot of it was. The playing was, you know, really the most important thing, playing for the song, trying to achieve a certain feel, and warmth, and humanity, all things that were all kind of a confluence in the 70s that we don't have as much 80s, 90s, and the aughts. But we're getting back to it. Now I'm noticing in the last decade or so, a lot of better choices are being made in production, and how people are playing their instruments and you know, getting more to back to the human feel that took 40 years or more to get there. But okay, I love all music from all genres ... I can find something good anywhere, anytime... I was just listening to some old Country/Western, like from the 50s last night, it was so great. But these are these are my these are my soul song wheelhouse, like tunes.

Aaron Gobler:

Nice. So we should advise our listeners to clean your palate. So you have a fresh palate for these songs. And notice how each song tastes. I am eager for both of us to listen to the songs together, and then understanding why each of the individual songs is meaningful to you. So first, we'll take a listen to "Rich Girl", by Daryl Hall and John Oates. Jason, this song is from Hall and Oates' earlier phase where their songs in my mind were more melodic. And the lyrics had stronger meaning compared to say, their string of pop hits in the 80s. And in in previous episode I played "Did It In a Minute", which is just sticks in your head. But I still I'm still trying to understand what what they mean in the lyrics compared to like this song, which and you know, "She's Gone", or "Sarah Smile", which are much just denser, more meaningful songs. So sure. So why did you choose this particular song?

Jason Wizelman:

I think this goes back to the conversation about the 70s You know, and just even touching on what you just said about the 80's hits versus the 70s. I mean, there's just more humanity in the writing and in the playing for certain this song you get touched immediately when he hits that first opening line and then hit those two notes on the electric Fender Rhodes piano, it's, to me, it just it just touches my soul. This is like whatever's happening right then in there, makes me stop. And I'm going to listen. And I'm, I'm in and it's a quick hit. Two minutes, three minutes, whatever it is, tell the quick story, you get it immediately. Again, going back to the drums, that guy that plays the drums on this records, a guy called Ed Greene, studio musician, played on a lot of hits, like 70s and 80s. Like a bunch of songs you would know like crazy, crazy, crazy guy. And this was before they kind of had like their own real band. And this influence, like this guy doesn't play the snare drum which is that middle drum ... he plays the toms, like the whole thing is based on the toms, but he does this build up just feels like your soul is being invited into the story of this girl making the wrong choice, you know, and the guy trying to convince her you know, "it's not such a great idea. It's not going to get you anywhere. You know, it may seem like a good idea now." Okay, I feel the words. I feel the sentiment of the musicality, and not to mention the soul, right? These guys are one of the greatest soul bands of all time. This is a force if you're seeing these guys live you would not believe how talented they are. It's shocking. Daryl Hall's voice is a revelation. We should be talking about it in the canon of, you know, the greatest voices of all time, if you ask me.

Aaron Gobler:

I actually have seen them. And actually, they're, they met at Temple University in Philadelphia. And I'm a Philly boy. Yeah. So they're the pride and joy of Philadelphia. And so I did see them, I think at the man Music Center probably still have the ticket stub sitting around here somewhere. But I agree. I mean, last time I saw them, they were already into their pop phase. But of course, they played all their hits from the 70s. You know, I could do a whole hour radio show just about the memorable songs from them.

Jason Wizelman:

Indeed.

Aaron Gobler:

Well, thank you for including this song from their earlier work. And it's what a lot of us remember from them, and maybe not as much some other some of the pop hits they had in the 80s...

Jason Wizelman:

Which I love those tunes, too, by the way, I mean, I'm not embarrassed to say I could I could pull up a "Maneater" right right now and go to town, you know? "Kiss On My List". You know, sometimes you just want to light snack. Sometimes you want a full meal. "Rich Girl" is a full meal!

Aaron Gobler:

Yes. So some of the pop hits are more like a quick hamburger from from really good hamburger joint. Yeah.

Jason Wizelman:

A slider, maybe ... I wouldn't even go full hamburger, you know?

Aaron Gobler:

Thank you for that description, because it actually helps me segue into the next song, which is "Reelin' in the Years", by Steely Dan, and from what I understand and and from some of the videos that I've seen, of their creative process ... my understanding is that many or maybe even all of the Steely Dan songs, several different backup or background or even featured artists were brought in for different takes.

Jason Wizelman:

Oh, yeah. This song. This song had many many guitar players doing solos. Many.

Aaron Gobler:

Okay; the final version?

Jason Wizelman:

Yeah, the final version's of one person. You know, and they brought in probably seven or eight guys. They do this all the time. Same thing with the drummer, like the best drummer in the world is one of them is playing on this, doing a shuffle, which is funny because there's something you would not know. But there are two of the three tunes are shuffle tunes. I'll explain what that is later. Okay. This is a guy that like invented, like one of the greatest shuffles of all time called; his name is Bernard Purdie. He's also very famous, playing with a lot of people, Aretha Franklin being one of the biggest, but many, many, many very, very, very well known, but he has a groove called the "Purdie Shuffle". That's what he plays in this song. Like you hire this guy to make hits. That's what that was a sign he would put on his door. "If you want a hit, hire me", you know. So go ahead and throw it on. I'll talk more about the drums ...

Aaron Gobler:

Yeah. Let's throw this vinyl on the phonograph here and give it a spin.

Jason Wizelman:

That's funny.

Aaron Gobler:

Jason, we were talking about how Steely Dan and that the two leads are we're perfectionists.

Jason Wizelman:

Yeah. Walter Becker, and Donald Fagan.

Aaron Gobler:

And so it was so important for them to get the exact sound that they wanted. And even if a song is not necessarily in your taste, you know, if one song is too jazzy, or one song is whatever, each piece is like a fine art. Like it had to be exactly exactly the way they wanted it before it came out. And what made you choose this particular song from their catalog?

Jason Wizelman:

Elliott Randall, that guitar solo. There's two guitar players already in this band who are very accomplished and very well known ... and Walter Becker, who didn't play a lot of solos at the beginning of the Steely Dan canon. And Jeff "Skunk" Baxter. The guy with the big thick mustache, who was in the Doobie Brothers; they bring these guys these studio guys all the time to play in all these different tracks. And they let them loose. And to see what comes out. This is one of the most famous guitar pieces in all of pop history. The guy did it all in one take. Even the outro playing like you, you know, if you listen to this, the last 30 seconds is fading out. It's some just crazy, ridiculous guitar playing. And it's so effortless. That's another thing is nothing feels forced. All this is just pouring out of somebody's soul ... and you feel it. And it's at that top level. So oh my god. It's sort of like eating caviar or the finest chocolate or just such an amazing wine. You have. You've tasted other things like this before, but never this quality or this level. And that's what's amazing about this song for me personally, is I love the sentiment of course, too, because it's just the lyrics are amazing. But the the interplay between all these frickin' top-level musicians, is just when you understand it as a musician to have everyone play on that kind of level, sustaining that kind of soulfulness. And perfection, as you said, pointed out and blazing energy. If you go back and listen to that guitar solo, the way it opens up. He just holds one note and just kind of lets it dangle there. Everybody is just hanging on that note with the guy. And it's a beautiful expression of people who listen with their ears, and still can bring their A game. It makes me excited. I've heard that song no less than 2000 times; I've played that song probably 100 times. Okay. And I still get chills when I hear it. Same thing with "Rich Girl". Every time that song comes on, if I don't know it's comin'. Oh, man, it just gets me going. It's, you know, I can never turn them off.

Aaron Gobler:

And this shuffle that you described? Is that how you strike the drums? Or is it using some kind of special technique?

Jason Wizelman:

Good questions. So it's a Jazz technique. And it's doubles on the high-ups; and also that snare drum, which is the thing in the middle that buzzes; there's something called ghost notes. So you hit something [sound of Jason striking his desk with something] straight, right? It's a regular note, if you hit something straight, and then put a little tap below it, [Jason demonstrates this strike-and-tap method] so you can barely hear it. It's called a ghost note. So a shuffle has a lot of ghost notes [Jason scats to simulate drumming ghost notes] you'll really hear pronounced on the third tune? Which, again, choosing shuffles was not; it just so happens in songs all have these, you know, thread and shuffles are, you know, done well, they drive a song in a very lovely way. I'm a big fan of driving tunes. I've played big bands with a lot of horn so I like to drive tunes. And one of the easiest way is to kind of throw in ghost notes. And to do shuffles. They really they can really make something undulate. I love undulation Yeah, that's another thing. All these three tunes. have, you know, like you're riding a wave, especially the next tune, "Fool in the Rain". I mean, that is. That's a ridiculous undulation tune. It goes on so many places. But same thing with "Rich Girl", it just undulates, more like a waterbed. And the second tune, "Reelin' In the Years", undulates more like like maybe wind, where as "Fool In the Rain" is just, it's waves? It's, it's the ocean. And it's, you know, you can you feel it, you feel like you're actually moving, you know, back and forth with the groove. That's John Bonham, he's, you know, in my opinion ... the greatest.

Aaron Gobler:

Yeah. Yeah. And what is an interesting contrast to me between your first two songs, and this third song is that even though Jimmy Page, his guitar playing in Led Zeppelin is so prominent and so memorable, I think the most prominent instrument through the song really, or the most effective instrument is is the drums.

Jason Wizelman:

I would agree with that.

Aaron Gobler:

The way they mixed it. It's so right in your face.

Jason Wizelman:

And that's Jimmy Page. Jimmy Page is the one; he loved John Bonham. He's the biggest proponent of John Bonham. He's the one who mixed all these ... he's the one who brought those sounds to the fore. And you know, I'll also challenge you on something too, which is the whole song is percussive. Listen to every person playing on this tune these four people bring a lot of percussion even Jimmy especially in these in the solo [Jason simulates a guitar sound] ... you're gonna hear chunky it's very chunky. This is just, mmmm, like steak.

Aaron Gobler:

So I'm thinking about it Robert Plant his singing is it's almost like a staccato his singing is is not really like flowing. It's often spoken in little bursts. Yeah, so you're right. That's I never thought about it that way. But thank you for for suggesting that everybody is doing some kind of percussion in the song. So let's jump right into listen to it. I'm excited to hear it again.

Jason Wizelman:

We're so lucky.

Aaron Gobler:

Okay, here's "Fool In the Rain", by Led Zeppelin from 1979. That's just banquet.

Jason Wizelman:

There a force of nature. That's like a hurricane.

Aaron Gobler:

And each time I listen to it, I if I concentrate on a particular instrument or just parts of the song, I hear something more. The band Led Zeppelin is often categorized as hard rock or heavy metal, but so many of their songs like like this one are a blend of a variety of like different musical styles and influences. Like I actually heard Jazz, almost in the in the guitar solo toward the end the pattern.

Jason Wizelman:

For sure.

Aaron Gobler:

And I never heard a coach whistle or whatever you want to call that a police whistle or whatever. In a rock song. I've heard it disco songs.

Jason Wizelman:

Well, now okay, so this is like Samba. There's a whole origin came out of Argentina where they use that in those drum lines, they use those kind of whistles a lot to kind of call out the drum lines and change the rhythm. That's what that is.

Aaron Gobler:

I don't think I've heard it in any other song where it actually, you know, demarcates like, this is where we're changing, you know, and then the fact that it changes to what you're saying is like a Samba in a rock song! Yeah. It's just mind-blowing. Like who even was inspired to put that in there in the song?

Jason Wizelman:

Crazy. Right? Well, Robert Plant and John Paul Jones, they were at the World Cup in Argentina. And they were hearing this kind of stuff all over the place. And that's kind of what led to the impetus behind writing this tune, which is, you know, great. That's a great backstory, like, okay, who'd ever thunk that's where "Fool In the Rain" came from.

Aaron Gobler:

Yeah. So we've talked a lot about the song already. But is there a particular thing about this song from all the rest of the songs that they've done?

Jason Wizelman:

There's so many amazing songs. Yeah. But if you play the first 30 seconds of this tune, and you just listen to what John Bonham is doing, those are; that's a shuffle. Those are ghost notes. This is, this is like, the greatest piece of drum music you could ever want to hear. It just it's so driving. And so beautiful. And so soulful. Growing up, I remember, in the 80s a lot of guys would said, you know, I want to be like John Bonham ... and they bash their drums really hard. But you know, the thing you learn as you grow up, and you really get ears and watch someone like him on, you know, Beta[max] tape. This guy didn't hit them hard. His wrists were very strong. He was able to really press in on these drums to give it like a feel. But man, he didn't really bash him. It was his touch. That was like a feather. So frickin' amazing. And, you know, for me, the chunkiness for a song that drives like this. There's really no bass driven by guitar and piano mostly. And it's a thing where you listen to the bass drum and what he's doing with his foot, compared to what he's doing with his hands. For a drummer, it's like a, it's like the Holy Trinity. Like he's just using his ears, his legs and his hands. With such an amazing blend, and touch. I could listen to that song literally, on repeat, over and over and over again and not. And still not be satisfied. Like every time it ends, I'm like, I can't do that. And we got to do it again. You know, it's, it's the greatest for me, that is my, you know, my three songs? "Fool In the Rain" is one, I don't know what the other two are. But "Fool In the Rain" is on the list every time all the time. I remember the first time I heard that song. It was probably like in the early 80s. And I was like, oh, what this has changed my life. I remember feeling it. At the time this is changing my life was in my brother Daryl's room. And I was on the floor. And I guess it was 82 I'm gonna guess probably like a year or two after the tune come out. I really didn't. I wasn't really, I hadn't understood Led Zeppelin yet. I was still in my Kiss and the Who; the Who was like my big band phase at that point and Rush to a little bit of Rush. And I just didn't feel Led Zeppelin. I didn't understand Robert Plant at the beginning. And I wasn't it I couldn't get beyond Robert Plant to get to John Bonham yet until I knew I was gonna be a drummer. And then the minute the drums like, were my thing. I was like, Oh, I gotta go back and understand what's happening. Most musicians can identify that straight on. But I think also players I mean, I mean, listeners, people like you, you know, he's great. You maybe can't put your finger on why? But you know, because you feel it. Right. It feels amazing. There are certain guitar performances or bass performances or drum performances that in pop songs are like, so simple. Like going back to Ringo? Yeah, you try it. You try to emulate because what we don't; we discount or don't talk about enough is that a human being is putting their imprint on those notes. The person that's imprinting, the vocals and the guitar playing and the drumming and all the other things instruments to of course, they're the ones that are changing the tone. And that when the tune gets changed, it's because of a human being. Yeah. So, you know, you feel that. That's the beauty of music. This is why it's central to my life. It's, it's the feel and the soul encapsulating, holding, and I use it as a ground. I use it as a, as a vessel for me to have the rest of the day. If I feel like my soul is contained somewhere else I can go on about my day. That's what music does for me. It contains my soul. By the way, these three songs, I chose them because they resonate in my soul. But I've got another 300 right? ... That I could just pop out right now, you know, if you have the next 14 weeks.

Aaron Gobler:

Jason, I had a lot of fun.

Jason Wizelman:

Me too.

Aaron Gobler:

This made me reexamine some of the things about some of these songs that I hadn't thought about. So thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show.

Jason Wizelman:

Thanks for having me. It really was a hoot.

Aaron Gobler:

And you're welcome to come back again with another three songs you can just fill out the form and I'd be glad to have you back.

Jason Wizelman:

That's very lovely.

Aaron Gobler:

Well, there's hundreds of other songs so we can arrange several shows ... so start thinking of the theme for your for your next three songs.

Jason Wizelman:

I love this idea.

Aaron Gobler:

Great! Thank you for being part of this!

Jason Wizelman:

Of course.

Aaron Gobler:

To my listeners. If you want to be part of the show. Start by going to our website Aaron's Radio dot show, and clicking on the My Three Songs button on the homepage. You can also sign up for our mailing list so you'll know immediately when a new episode is available. You can also find Aaron's radio show on your favorite podcast service, but the podcast episodes only include interviews and no licensed music. Until next time, keep your ears and mind open and let more music into your world.

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